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DAW-less production studio equipment

Just looking for a few equipment tips. So I’ve invested in two drum machines lately, one a Alesis SR-16 as a basic drum machine, and a Korg Volca Drum which is a lot of fun, messing with the drum sounds in analogue and creating new sounds and bass.

Got me thinking I want to try and do some songwriting without the need for a DAW. Mainly cos I only have a work laptop and they won’t let me put Ableton on it :laughing: but also I like the tangible element of using a physical machine.

So my question is what would be a good way expand on this approach? I’ve seen a few DAW-less, all-in-one machines like the MPC Live and Maschine+, Roland Verselab MV-1 seems a pretty comprehensive machine. But these are all like £600+

Basically I kind of want to emulate what a Verselab or a top end MPC in functionality, by buying a few cheap second hand bits and pieces. Is this possible? And if so what would be a like a couple of good old machines to look for first?

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Roland SP-404: if you aren’t familiar it’s a hardware sampler which has been described as the poor man’s MPC. Good for ‘lo-fi’ hip hop instrumentals. A new one (SP-404A) is >£400 and you can pick up second-hand ones for around the same I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDPcmYGPRKA&ab_channel=RolandChannel

I use one and happy to answer questions if you PM or just on here.

I really want to play with a Teenage Engineering OP-1 cos I hear they’re great. They are not cheap though.

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Amazing thanks mate I will definitely look at that. The OP-1, yes! I saw that one too it looks like an incredible bit of kit.

Thank you very much for the advice offer too really appreciated

No worries love talking tech. the other thing that just came to mind is like a 4-track tape recorder (like this) or modern digital equivalent (like this). Obviously you need a mic and some instruments and I guess ideally still a DAW to edit what you’re recording (if you’re on the digi one). But I’m 99% sure people made some good shit on those things alone before we had DAWs.

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Ahhhh, interesting yeah I’ve seen these that’s a great idea

So am I right in thinking that the MIDI pad / keyboard controllers all generally require a DAW unless otherwise stated?

I am not enough of a hardware user to answer this for sure but really interested if anyone else can.

I know MIDI is used to trigger/control hardware synths and I think that some keyboards like this one are especially good for that. But yeah I’m not 100% sure if a computer has to be involved. I reckon a real engineer or a modular synth nerd could tell you pretty quickly.

Here are two shops in the UK you should talk to, just ring them and ask for advice:

London Modular
Rubadub

Let us know how you progress

Nice one mate really appreciate the advice

Okay this could be a long one…

So i feel as though when planning a fully DAWless setup, the best way to go about it is imagining that the DAW you’d usually use is broken up into different sections. These are -

The brain - You could think of this like as if it is the DAW its-self. This could be something as simple as a drum machine/sampler such as something from Roland’s TR line, or something a little more complex (but in my opinion well worth it) like the Arturia Keystep pro, as @islander mentioned earlier.
There are advantages and disadvantages to each of these setups - with the advantages of using the drum machine as a brain being that you are not spending extra cash on something that is not directly making a noise. If you are using a drum machine with a decent sequencer such as Roland’s TR-8s, you can send midi out to a fair few different synths using their midi through settings and keep everything clocked which works fine for me!
The advantages of using a dedicated piece of kit as a brain such as the Keystep pro is that it is designed to pretty much be a hardware DAW. There are multiple channels that output midi with their own dedicated sequencers that can be used to control different synths. The guys over at Artutia are literally insanely smart, i can’t recommend their products enough! Both hardware and software.
I think for what you are describing, something like the Keystep pro/Beatstep pro would be perfect! Try buy second hand (they don’t often degrade too much over time) and then you’ll have extra $$$ to get you kickstarted with synths for sound design!

Sound modules - Sound modules are like your synth plugins. So I know that “sound modules” makes it sound like i’m talking about some mad Eurorack setup, but i’m just using this term to reference anything in your setup that is actively making a sound. This could consist of a drum machine and a couple synths… or a few drum machines, 30 different synths, a turntable, a mic for your pal that thinks he can spit, a sampler, and that fart sound effect app on your phone! These can all be linked to your brain through midi and would become the individual channels of your DAW that are making the sounds.
This is where it gets dangerous for your bank account.
G.A.S is a big problem once you get into hardware synths, i often find myself substituting one of my daily meals for months on end so i can get a new piece of kit. I’m saying this because you should research everything you get to DEATH before you buy it. Some of these bits of kit are big investments that beginners should steer clear of. My suggestions for first synths to get you started would be the Behringer TD-3 (a great little 303 clone that is literally £120) and the korg Mono/Minilogue (depending on if you’re wanting polyphony). All of these synths are priced amazingly, great to get started with, and all have sequencers built in so you can use just a drum machine as a brain if needs be!

Effects - These would be your… effects? You can pick up (or even make) guitar pedals for dirt cheap. Experiment with what sounds you like, just watch a load of youtube vids and see what mad stuff people do with including cheap effects modules in DAWless setups. I’d suggest a digital pedal that covers a load of different effects such as the Zoom MS-50G, it has plenty of effects that you can chain together and get creative with and it costs £100… steal if you ask me.

Mixer - Again, this would just be the mixer i guess. think of it as the bit that Ableton opens on with all the sliders haha. You can pick up little 5 input analogue mixers for like £50 new, you really don’t need anything special! all this does is take the individual sounds from each sound module in your setup and mix them all together. Try get one with sliders and not knobs, they are just cooler take my word for it. There are also a load of little portable mixer options that are quite cool for if you want a mobile DAWless setup. You can get mixers that are USB compatible, meaning you can record your jams into a DAW if needs be. But there will always be outputs to record the analogue signal with something like a Zoom field recorder if you REALLY hate DAWs.

I’d suggest just setting a night of your time aside, going on youtube and doing a deep dive into the DAWless world. Some channels that i’d suggest are -

Ricky Tinez - He’s from the US and makes house, usually uses a fully DAWless setup. I’ve learned a lot from this guy and still learn so much new stuff from every video he puts out.

BoBeats - This guys is like the living embodiment of ambient music. He’s also a genius and has more videos online talking about DAWless kit than i think i could ever get through.

LOOK MUM NO COMPUTER - This guys a bit of a wildcard, he’s an evil genius. He does a lot of conceptual stuff and makes his own synths from bits of junk like old Furbies. He’s proper jokes, some of his videos i feel like i’ve dropped acid. He covers a lot of the literal fundamentals of making music without a computer hence the name. Check him out, but don’t get sucked in as i’ve spent a large portion of my life watching him solder.

I hope this helps and if you ever need any more advice on anything hardware related, shout me as i am a bit of a dork.

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holy wow mate did not expect THAT level of detail, thank you so much this gives me so much valuable material. Having a proper read of this researching all your suggestions, fantastic advice.

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The LOOK MUM NO COMPUTER GUY - that’s exactly the kind of thing I had in mind myself thank you for linking

Haha mate, it’s honestly no problem, I have to find somewhere to nerd out about this stuff BC i think my girlfriend is close to leaving me :joy:

I’m thinking of making a thread specifically tailored towards gear chat for DAWless producers and people who use a lot of hardware. Would probably contain semi regular updates about new kit, i’ll be there to have a crack at any questions people may have, and people can showcase what they are working on and how they incorporate hardware into their setups. Let me know if you’d be interested in something like this and i can start thinking about it a little more!

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hahaha! Yes 100% I would be interested in this. Furthermore I’m now about to spend £100 on a TD-3 rather than food :laughing:

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Watch it mate, it’s a slippery slope… :weary:

Good shout though! What colour did you get? The sequencer in that is like one of the best out of any 303 clone, even ones 5 times the price

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I know lol! Not got it yet, bidding on ebay for a grey one (red or yellow would be preferred choice but beggars choosers eh)

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