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Looking for some ears for my Indie-Folk track

Hey Guys,

First post here, so let me begin by saying hello. Yet another great idea from the Pirate team! Love it.

I’m just looking for a bit of feedback on a track of mine that I’m working on. I started recording tracks out of necessity when COVID hit, so I am pretty fresh to actually engineering/producing, and not having a Producer to make the songs sparkle for me! So this is my attempt to get what’s in my head into Logic!

Any little constructive tips, steers, ideas are greatly appreciated.

The only thing is, this is a low-key Indie-Folk(ish) song and I’ve only really seen house music tracks and producers on here, so not sure if this is the right forum for it…apologies if not!

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on it.

Cheers,

Mark

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Hey Mark :slight_smile:

This is definitely still the right forum, thanks for sharing your work.

It’s a really beautiful song, the only feedback I can think of is you might want to try de-essing a little on the vocals. But as I said it’s great - looking forward to checking out the rest of your soundcloud!

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Oh, thanks so much, Eva! I really appreciate your feedback.

Yeah, I’ve not properly got to grips with the de-esser, truth be told. I’ve been playing around with it but not really getting that surgeons precision of cutting out the ‘s’ sounds yet. I’ll have to keep trying, but nice one for pointing that out!

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Welcome to Community @markmathewsmusic! You’ve come to the right place - we’re open to all genres and sounds (I’ve even got an indie-folk number on my profile - recorded a long time ago so ignore some of the recording mistakes!)

I’m pretty impressed with your track given you only started recording during lockdown - how long have you been writing for? I get some serious Simon & Garfunkel vibes - really gorgeous songwriting. It’s got that warm 70s feeling to it, which is hard to pull off.

I’ve written a few notes after a couple of listens. There’s some producers / engineers on here with a lot more experience than me, so I’m sure you’ll get some great advice on this one. Here’s my take:

  • To my ears, it sounds like you’re putting effects directly on the source vocal track, rather than creating a send. This can lead to the issues @Eva_Pirate pointed out around any esses (desser helps, but it can also be too many effects on the source material). This video (around the 5 minute mark) shows how you can do this. It means you keep the quality of the original take intact, but any time-based effects (reverb, delay etc) go to another channel. It tends to keep the vocals warmer and gives the reverb a bit more space in the mix. If you’re already doing this then ignore me!
  • Keep an eye on your reverb levels. I used to make the mistake when I first started out of drenching everything in reverb - it definitely helps give your recording character and can sometimes mask some of the shortcomings of the takes, but too much and it starts to make the mix a little muddy. You want to use it sparingly and don’t be afraid to keep certain parts a little dry.
  • Some of the high-end frequencies (particularly on the vocals) are a little harsh on the ears. This video shows a technique where you can drag your EQ across the frequency spectrum to find some of the harsh tones and pull them back. It’s amazing how much you can do with EQ to get a richer, warmer sound on your vocals.

Overall, really love the track though and think you’ve got a real talent for arrangement too. Let us know how you get on with it! Any questions too just shout - always happy to help out.

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Oh man, that is all so super helpful! Thanks so much for the pointers and the videos - That is going to really help a lot.

I totally agree with the points you make too: it’s a fair cop Guv, I’m a little cray on the reverb! Not so much for covering mistakes, more to get the air and space in the sound and, like you say, to give it the character that is in my head.

And yeah, the high end has been really bugging me actually and I’ve been going into EQ’ing a little blind, just trying stuff here and there, so hopefully the video you’ve given me is going to help out a bit on that too.

Thanks so much for taking the time to listen and feedback - It’s been a bit of a boost to hear the positive feedback as well as the helpful, important pointers as it goes. I’ve listened to it so many times now, I had lost all idea of whether it was any good or not!

Thanks a million!

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Glad to hear it’s given you a boost! The track is really great.

What microphone are you using out of interest?

I’m using the AT2035

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Nice. That’s a decent entry level mic.

Giving it another listen now. Another point I’d add is to have a play around with the width of you mix. Some of the nice piano flourishes and guitar picking could potentially be panned a little wider in the mix to really bring them out and give everything a bit more space / room to breathe.

Oh cool, yeah. I do mess with panning, but perhaps I am a little conservative with it all. Cheers, Dan! Legend!

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No worries! It’s easy to overdo it, and you might find that it doesn’t work for this particular track. I’m often surprised at how much it helps to accentuate certain little flourishes that would otherwise get a bit lost in the mix. Definitely one to have a play around with!

Was meaning to leave some feedback on this track but I’ve been a bit busy in the studio, I just went to have another listen to this track on my studio speakers to give some pointers but it’s gone now :frowning_face:

Anyway really liked the song I heard but you were falling into some mixing pitfalls so was hoping I could steer you out of some of them.

Anyway I’ve recorded, mixed, produced and mastered quite a bit of folk/traditional music so might have some tips for you.

When you throw up more material let me know. Would like to hear more of your tracks…and maybe this one again :wink:

In the meantime here’s some tracks I produced, recorded, mixed, mastered and played on so you can see it’s not just the areas of reggae and D’n’b I work in :wink:




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I want to hear all about these mixing pitfalls for sure, Gareth!

I took the song down as it was a WIP but here it is again:

Thanks!

Mark

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Nice one! Leave it up for a day anyway as I’ll be in my studio tomorrow and would love to give it a proper listen on some good monitors so i can give you some precise feedback. Thanks for posting again!

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Sorry for the late response on this Mark or should I say @markmathewsmusic :wink: It’s been a bit hectic for me here in studio so finally got to sit down and have a proper listen to this today…but better late then never.

Anyway for one I would avoid using a De esser it can sound really nasty in folk music and squash sibilants that you need.

Instead on your DAW zoom in on the sibilants, highlight them and reduce their volume and hey presto no sibilants. it is quite time consuming but worth doing for a better overall vocals sound that you can then EQ or dynamically process with confidence.

Also I think you’ve used some auto tuning on this which can really make the sibilants nasty, distorted, and aggressive…on any ‘s’ and ‘t’ sounds remove the tuning if using Melodyne Vari-Audio or the like and it’ll instantly sound better.

You need to sort out your bass end a bit. I would suggest that you cut some bass frequencies on the bass guitar to get more clarity. Focus in on what frequencies are making your kick sound good and cut those frequencies on the bass guitar. You could also use a low shelf on a few instruments to help define the bass end of your mix a bit better…

In terms of panning I think you could be a bit more adventurous in some harder panning of some instruments to get more clarity out of the mix.

You could try having the instruments narrow in the verses (i.e to the center position) and then panning them wide (hard left and hard right) for the choruses which will have the added benefit of giving the choruses a boost. Remember though not to pan all the way to the right and left as the mixes won’t collapse down well to mono.

I would also suggest when introducing or removing elements (i.e. new instruments or vocals) you do so in pairs. A lot of people introduce or take away one element at a time when mixing but it’s better if you do it in groups of two. i.e. two new things get introduced on a chorus or 4 things get removed going into a verse. It will give your track better overall dynamics and make it feel more like something has happened when it has happened!

I think you could afford to bring up the side stick on the kit to give the track a little extra push at the end.

In terms of coalescing frequencies you have quite a lot going on in the mid range and low mids and you should look at what is really working frequency wise on each instrument…and then cutting those frequencies on other instruments, a bit of surgical eq’ing so to speak to bring out the best of each instrument. If you have been soloing tracks to eq them, don’t do this! as it could be where you have been falling down with your eq.

If you have been soloing to eq you should try to reset all your eq’s and attempt to use the volume faders first to find a space where all instruments sit. Then surgically eq as you go but don’t fall into the trap of soloing tracks to eq as you can get something to sound gorgeous and lush when solo’d only to find that it’s muddy and dense and doesn’t sit at all when brought back into the mix. It also tends to leave you with a bunch of coalescing frequencies where nothing has presence even though when solo’d they all appear to have.

I like some of the sound effects and pads you have got going on but whenever there are vocals I would take them out as they’re clouding the definition between the vocals and instrumentation.

I know all this may be a lot to digest and implement but you have a really strong track here with some great vocals/lyrics, lush harmonies, nice playing, interesting instrumentation and arrangement that’s getting let down a little by the mix.

TLDR Great Tune!

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This is all gold! Thanks Gareth!

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Hey there, for some reason the track is not showing up… have you removed this?